50,000 miles in golf gti edition 30

Oh how the miles creep up....

which is exactly

1298 days or
112,147,200 seconds or
1,869,120 minutes or
31,152 hours or
185 weeks

from the day we picked her up on 30th October 2007.

which is an average of 38.52 miles/day or 270 miles/week

various car pic albums : GTI Edition 30 / BMW E46 M3 / MR2 Spyder / Fiat Coupe 20V Turbo / GTI Mk2 8V

got some time to start syncing pics from an old machine to picasa.
Also added these album links into the right hand menu --->

Golf GTI Edition 30 REVO Stage 1 remap review

Why
For a long time I have been running APR Stage 1 on my 57 plate manual Edition 30
My original Edition 30 : APR Stage 1 review has all the info for that decision.

At the time I decided that the combination of APR and AwesomeGTI suited my needs best using some factors I think you should consider for a map/tuner :

Customer base (size)
customer feedback
type of customer profile
distance from you
cost
development time and resource to produce product
updates
are they VW specific or other makes too?
time in business for this specific car make
dyno plots (both from company and from forums , they differ greatly). shape is as, if not more important than ultimate numbers
AirFuelRatio data, EGR temp data etc
ability and type of switching , stock vs mapped mode
adjustability

all well and good, I was happy until October 2010 when the folllowing bombshell dropped from AwesomeGTI HQ


"For nearly 10 years, Awesome have been responsible for the sales, marketing and distribution of all APR software and hardware products in the UK. Over a number of years, Awesome have suffered due to 'internal politics' at APR and we have decided to terminate our business relations. As from 3 PM on Tuesday 12th October 2010, Awesome terminated its partnership with APR LLC and signed contracts with Revo Technik as an approved dealer. "


full AwesomeGTI press release

and heres the carrot.....


28 Day Amnesty starting Monday the 18th of October.
This will allow any existing APR software equipped vehicle to be re flashed to REVO software with no charge


as you can imagine I was over the moon at this :happy2:

Now this puts any Awesome supplied APR owner in a quandry.

3 choices
a) move onto REVO software to ensure continued support.
b) keep APR but have no idea where to get support from or indeed how far away from your location it will be.
c) flash back to stock

For me it was actually very easy, and confirmed that backup and support is worth more than ultimate bhp/map name.
Even if Awesome had moved to a.n.other.software.map Id probably have gone with that to keep the support.
But as we all know REVO is the main player in the UK so to be honest it was a no brainer.
Others I'm sure had slightly different decisions, but for me going to REVO on a K04 is not a worry, but theres lots of other maps out there (K03, early 1.8T cars etc)

Offering free changeover was a masterstroke by AwesomeGTI to keep the customer base. Im sure if it had cost then a much larger % would just have said 'fine,Ill keep APR and do without support'.
Not withstanding that Im sure more than a few SPS units have been sold to go with the 'free' remap ;-)

So here I am full circle, originally considering APR vs REVO, choosing APR, then by a quirk of fate moving onto REVO.

I feel pretty lucky as given the cost of a remap, few of us switch between tuners, we mostly make an informed decision then stick with it.
Having had a few discussions it seems that the support just wasnt there from APR, I have experienced this after having misfire issues, where it became patently obvious that Awesome were spending vast amounts of time logging my car (not at my expense I hasten to add) to eventually find an APR map fault.
I also believe that theres an issue with APR stg1 ED30 file and high flow intakes (Forge Twintake/ITG Maxogen) that APR have no inclination to resolve.

however I digress.

For over 30000 miles I have thoroughly enjoyed the APR stg1 K04 ED30 map, but circumstance means Im now REVO...

timeline for maps on my car
0 - 12,000 miles : OE std map
12000 - 31000 miles : APR stage 1 flash
31000 - 42000 miles : APR stage 1 v2.2 update
42000 - to date : REVO stage 1

Sourcing
well that would be from AwesomeGTI, Manchester

REVO quote the following figures/gains and costs
2.0T FSI 230bhp/221lbsft 300bhp/310lbsft trial=yes £499 (stage1) £549(stage2) £599(stage2+)

for stage 1 the relative gains are 2.0TFSi +35-60 bhp +50-80 lbft torque
if you have stage 1 its £50 to upgrade to stage2

for me the map and logging/setup itself was free under Awesomes offer.

If you are the tweaking kind or want the ability to switch to stock , or want to activate the antitheft feature you also need the SPS switch which is £99.
With APR I could switch maps using the cruise control stalk. With that no longer available I needed to buy the SPS unit to perform the same function
(and allow me to 'play' with the settings)
Best have a look at what the SPS can do


Fitting
Simples, turn up reflash and some on road logging to set the Boost/Timing/Fuel parameters (which are set initially but you can then alter with the SPS)
As it turned out I'd filled with BP Ultimate 97RON which isnt good enough for the usual timing settings.
So mine was pegged back to B6T3F9 (normal on 99RON would be something like B7/T5/F9)
I did not request dyno runs, which I'll get done later once I've tweaked the settings with VCDS AND fitted my new THS engine mounts(now fitted see my other review)

Heres a sample APR vs REVO graph for an Edition 30 (stage 2 I think) that awesome had in recently
http://www.awesome-gti.co.uk/images/mk5ed30_graph.jpg

Alternatives
plenty of choice, just do the research first
APR (lol)
GIAC
Superchips
etc..

APR vs REVO
Ok, so in the morning I drive in on APR , in the afternoon I drive out on REVO (B6T3F9).
Immediately I notice the idle is better, and dont push the car too hard. First impressions are good
I subsequently pottered about and got a full tank of Shell VPower in and SPS'd the settings on Performance Map1 to B7T4F9.
Now for some fun, the throttle modulation feels different much more progressive.
APR improved the throttle control when I got the updated v2.2 map, allowed much better control but REVO improves it even further.
You can actually hold for example a small level of boost e.g. 5psi consistently whilst accelerating (this is actually quite hard on APR)
Acceleration feels 'clean and crisp' is the best way to describe it. The engine inertia feels lighter as if flywheel has been lightened.
I have a DEFi boost guage which has been invaluable for comparison (without which my assumptions and feelings would have been wrong...), I can cross reference butt dyno feel with actual psi.
(yes, I know psi isnt everything but its a reasonable bencmark here)
For a while my APR software had a peak of 20psi (early files had a higher peak) but dropped quickly to 16psi then back up as revs rise
(this is due to APR reducing boost from 3.5 - 4.5krpm for surge they believe occurs),
ironically this means that APR 'feels' faster than REVO but isnt by a long way.
REVO software peaks higher initially (23+psi) AND then holds it higher for a longer rev range.

There are 2 areas where they differ the most
1) 3500-4500 rpm boost levels : APR dips REVO stays put
2) 4500rpm to redline boost levels : APR boost is much lower with an ever increasing psi gap to the redline wrt REVO

in short they are NIGHT AND DAY, when driving the car it feels different but the boost guage also tells a story.
Driving cars back to back you would think "REVO more linear and pulls harder top end", but if you look at the boost levels the gap is even wider than it feels.

And so we get onto hardware protection mapping, basically VW's effort to protect your engine.
Failsafes exist in the OE map, if the exhaust gas temperature levels get too high or maybe the airfuel ratio gets too lean then the ecu overrides any requests and tries to put more fuel in.
Much debate has ensued on various forums with it now into urban myth status, last time I saw any meaningful data was that both APR and REVO have protection mapping still present.
(some early REVO tunes may not but i cant substantiate that)

APR put a lot of emphasis on playing smarter by getting similar power to other tuners but also keeping within AFR and EGT limits.
Whilst I believe them, you also have to balance this with how many REVO cars are out there and havent had issues.
(Also consider that whats relevant in other countries isnt necessarily relevant here, fuel type/RON , climate conditions etc ALL effect a tuners ethos and the results)
REVO have also had issues with some tunes (misfires on certain cars), so neither is whiter then white.
I try to be unbiased.

TODO additional data links
some notes from Arin@APR about tuning philosphy


Plus Points (compared to APR)
software settings are optimised and can be adjusted for each individual car.
idle quality seems better
the way the car revs 'feel' different and almost lightened if that makes sense. throttle response modulation has altered
car seems to spool earlier but ramp rate is reduced (probably effected by the boost setting in SPS)
boost builds then holds in a linear fashion there much less of a torque spike, this also helps the tyres keep grip and doesnt shock them loose as much.
tunable upgrade path to suit your mods
complimentary DSG software is available should you wish it

Minus Points (compared to APR)
you need an external SPS switch to swap maps (as opposed to cruise stalk for APR)
clutch was marginal on APR, on REVO its quite clearly on borrowed time! (although you could argue that linear delivery although higher stresses the plates less than a peaky lower delivery)
fuel economy is slightly worse

Summary
I have ran APR stage 1 ED30 software for 30,000 miles with no issues (few early teething troubles aside!) and good economy to boot.
I would have no hesitation recommending APR again where the individual wants support over ultimate hp for a local APR tuner.
Bottom line is, Ive tried it and it runs well and i loved it, and my car never broke.
(If Awesome switched back to APR I would quite happily switch back for the support aspect and acknowledge I'd lost some performance)

moving onto REVO, I love the new found ability to tweak the settings via the SPS.
I prefer the delivery style and the sheer increase in acceleration, its a great product, my feelings seem to echo just about every other REVO user Ive spoken too.
Is REVO running at safe boost and AFR values? I dont know, I hope so.
Is REVO running so far above safe levels that APR indicate? I doubt it otherwise we would have seen more failures.

My advice at the moment would be

If you want ultimate performance : get REVO
If you live close to a trusted garage that supplies APR : get APR and be happy you have a good tune
If you like to be 'safe' and worry about crossing the road at night : get APR

I'm no REVO or APR fanboi and i hate the forum rubbish that I regularly see spouted about both companies.
Do the research and make your own mind up. Its more likely that some other factor will ruin your car (poor quality oil/low oil/ dont let it warm up etc)

I was happy before, and I'm even happier now.
Based on my experience REVO is a faster, linear tune for a UK ED30 stg1 than APR in the same environment on the same fuel (UK 99RON Shell VPower)
If for some reason it goes bang or REVO is proved to be unsafe in the future this statement would be untrue and APR would have been proved to be right.

you pays your money, you takes your chance ................

thanks for reading :happy2:


future stuff
TODO : add logging new settings
TODO : add actual dyno plots of my own car

[EDIT : Nov 2015 car on 88000 miles : still running REVO Stage1 after all these years, BTF settings slightly reduced to keep the torque ramp up lower to make the clutch last as long as possible.
I have not updated the map version, nor got the 'linear settings' maybe at some point. Still love it, car runs great]

[EDIT :  i sold the Edition 30 and bought an Edition 35 (same engine)
I could have gone for REVO again, but this time I chose RTech, checl out
https://johnoldfield.blogspot.com/2019/03/golf-gti-edition-35-maintenance-and.html] 

THS Replacement FR3 Engine Mounts Golf GTI Edition 30 : Review

Why

well Im sure most of you already know Ive been incrementally trying to decrease the amount of engine movement I feel my car has had from day 1.
So my cars manual Ed30 'timeline' of incremental actions Ive researched and subsequently tried has been :

0 miles : car delivered with OE mounts
12,000 miles : ECS Lower Mount Insert review
26,000 miles : VWR 'Fast Road' Engine Mount + Powerflex Insert Bush - Review (Note : this replaces the ECS insert with a complete new mount)
44,900 miles : THS side mounts fitted : this review (Note : VWR Lower Mount + Powerflex bush still remain)

I strongly recommend you take a look at the VWR Lower mount review above as it also outlines lots of general detail about the TFSI engine mounts Im not going to repeat here. (as well as links to RedRobins other engine mount reviews)

For a long time now I have endured a broken oil cap / engine cover due to excessive movement that the dealer refuses to agree is a problem! (Note : I am now out of warranty)
Each time I have made changes the situation has improved to a varying degree, but over time either the new modification has 'softened' and/or the other mounts have continued to deteriorate.
This means unless you do a replacement of all items at once, theres a knock on effect.
I definitely felt that fitting the lower VWR mount hastened the demise of the side mounts (or maybe its just the way the OE mounts age past a certain amount of 'flexibility')

So I got to a point where I could face it no longer, my daughter would have to have a few less toys so that daddy can buy some engine mounts (lol).
The horrendous wheel hop and gradually returned and was painful, so much so I rarely 'pushed on'. As well as that deactivating the cruise control resulted in a jolt as the mounts rocked back and forth, very annoying. I have spent

best part of 6 months driving around the inadequacies of my engine mounts.

Having researched all the choices (see below) , and SteveP kindly setting up a very well timed
THS Engine Mount Group Buy, I jumped at the THS side mounts
(remember I already have a VWR lower mount which is the same as the THS lower version to all extents).

Why THS ?
I believe this represents a good halfway house between OE mounts and fully reworked mountings (BSH/VWR etc)
My previous experience with VWR lower mount showed me just how much a small difference can alter the NVH within the car, combined with stokeballons review on BSH mounts
, and the fact he removed them, prudence was required and I knew some compliance would still be required in the mounting system.
I like the concept of taking the OE design and improving it as well. (Although longer term this may also mean the mounts 'age' just like OE, but VWR/BSH mounts may not)
And lastly the price point is appealing, especially as theres a chance I dont like them!


Sourcing

from
THS Performance

"2005-Present (MK5/6 Platform VAG cars)
THS Performance have developed a new engine mounting system for the 1.8T FSI and 2.0T FSI MK5 and MK6 type application.
The outer casing of the mounting system maintains stock appearance, whilst the internal rubber has been carefully re-engineered by means of shape and stiffness to reduce engine/drive train movement. The rubber is 30% stiffer than standard but becasue of the re-engineered shape the engine movement is reduced by over 50% without transmitting any serious engine vibration back into the vehicle unlike polyurethane mounts.
The extra control over the engine and drive train makes for a much more precise power transmission to the road both on 2wd and 4wd applications.
Significantly reducing wheel hop on 2wd cars. Other benefits are reduced stress on the exhaust system."


cost was £160 (£200 normally) via the forums group buy.

Fitting

It looks scary but in reality its not that bad, as long as you take your time and have the right tools.
I was quoted by Awesome GTi Manchester around 1.5 to 2 hours labour (£82.50 to £110), but decided to attempt it myself.
SteveP quotes around an hour, it took me around 2.

(install guide copied from SteveP's notes)
Tools Needs: -
19 (maybe 18 mm lol), 13 & 10mm Sockets
16mm deep Socket
Couple of medium and long extension bars
T20 Torx Screwdriver
Jack and a wooden block to support the engine
Also found a magnetic pick up tool very helpful :grin:

On the drivers side mount I removed the bolts/screws for the washer filler neck, charcoal cannister and expansion tank, then unbolted the side support bracket.
Then you can get at the mount, that's unbolted by removing the2 x 16mm bolts and 2 x 19mm bolts.

Pics of the driver side mount: -







This side done: -


For the passenger side mount, the battery and battery tray (3 x 13mm bolts) need to be removed, then unclip the wiring loom tray the rest on top of the mount.
Then unbolt the three 19mm bolts on the engine side of the mount and the 4 x 19mm.
Pics of the Passenger side: -



This side done



my comments
I reused my original bolts
Use a torque wrench! +1/4 turn is a lot.
keep bolts in removal position order by punching holes in boxes new mounts come in to store bolts
fit bolts to chassis side first THEN engine side, if it feels wrong dont force or risk a cross thread!
use a jack to support the engine (THIS IS A MUST), once you see how much it all moves with a mount removed youll wonder why the OE mounts arent twice the size they are.
If you have a map e.g. REVO theres a chance the settings may get lost so have an SPS switch handy

other data
comments as fitted by Gaz
original mounts query thread by me


torque specs





Bolt numbers and approximate costs should you wish to buy replacements

Engine Mount =
2 x N 019 502 13 - M8x25 (£0.51 each)
1 x N 905 969 06 - M10x55x32 (£4.11 each)
2 x N 105 524 02 - M12x1,5x70 (£2.35 each)
1 x N 910 296 02 - AM10x55/M6x12 (£3.94 each)

Gearbox Mount =
4 x N 905 969 06 - M10x55x32 (£4.11 each)
2 x N 105 524 02 - M12x1,5x70 (£2.35 each)

Lower Mount =
1 x N 911 671 01 - M10x75 (£1.65 each)
1 x N 910 661 01 - M10x35 (£1.65 each)

All prices are inc VAT and as a guide only (part list from ETKA for a 2008 Golf).

TODO : describe old mounts
TODO : add pic of old mounts

Alternative engine mounts to consider

Theres a considerable amount of choice out there for engine mount replacements, its just a question of how far you want to go, and how much NVH you are willing to put up with.

BSH mounts
(non OE appearance but stealth like , poly bushing , inc new bolts) 78a durometer bushings
BSH speedshop
stokeballons review
vortex review
golfmkv review

VWR mounts
(non OE appearance, poly bushing)
VWR Racing
RR's lower mount review
my review of lower mount
RR's full set review

VF Engineering
(look the same as BSH version)
VF Engineering

BlackForestIndustries (US)
BlackForestIndustries
supply inserts (passengers side) , preassembled or full items (drivers side) , 3 levels of hardness from 1 to 3
"Stage1 65a poly inserts vs. the stock (45a)inserts are 50% stiffer than stack. Will increase some vibration in cabin - especially during certain rpm ranges"
they have a useful diagram of the collapsed OE mount .....


Use OE new mounts and fill as per TeutonicTamer
TT's thread on modded engine mounts
My only concern is that its still 2 different types of material that may seperate and age differently. Not entirely convinced it will last for very long.

I remember jonnyc also filled some engine mounts for his S3


Specific noise data

Im trying to compare to how I previously reported when the VWR lower was fitted. Now bear in mind that this got quieter over time as both it and other mounts have softened further

idle or idle+aircon
in a previous review I complained that a vibration was existent with air con on once the VWR lower had been fitted, ironically with the 2 side mounts fitted AND new REVO software this is now gone! something has meant the harmonics have changed out of this range. At idle my car is now quieter than it was before.

clutch biting point
I always have moaned that the DMFlywheel and clutch on the GTI is pants. feel is non existent. Immediately after fitting I felt the noise at the biting point was worse, but almost straight away this went, now the

noise at takeup has gone as feels much less harsh (ironic when you consider the NVH increases in all other phases, I would theorise the mounts 'settled' post installation, or maybe Im just deaf from the Grr...)

acceleration mild : feels coarse/harsh, +50% NVH increase. level increases as revs rise

deceleration : feels coarse/harsh, +50% NVH increase. level increases as revs rise

acceleration full : wtf! way more noise, easily +100% or more, when I spoke to Gaz I mentioned its more like an old mk2escort on twin 45DCOE carbs at full chat!
its intake/gearbox + just about any noise you can think of lol. Sounds like I have an intake fitted when I dont.not for the faint hearted or the paranoid.

You can modulate some of the sound with load applied but some still remains even on a flat throttle.
however cruising at 70-80mph is almost identical to before. Definitely lower speeds you notice the noises more.

now that sounds bad but it isnt really. I have now completed over 200 miles and already the noises are improving.
But in reality the car is no longer the paragon of smoothness you hoped for, but for me the benefits FAR outweigh the disadvantages of fitting.
I find it hard to imagine what the full BSH/VWR mounts sound like, if this is the halfway house.

Plus Points

OE look. OE design but better.
Fits just like OE
Warranty friendly
Its an easy to fit modification that looks daunting but isnt (but could be if you get it wrong)
Depending on how they last, I would say good value.
Engine no longer moves at all. Engine Cover/Oil Filler cap are now safe (as are aftermarket intakes if you have one installed re: forge snapping bracket)
Aural improvement if thats your thing. Grrrrr TM according to RedRobin
adds some intake like type noise even with stock engine cover
wheelhop is gone (finally)
clutch bitepoint noise has improved significantly.
THS Performance support seems to so far have been top notch with questions answered quickly and even torque settings supplied.

Minus Points

NVH. not really in keeping with the GTI fast but refined ethos. coming from very worn OE mounts they are a vast difference.
Long term resilience as yet unproven.
May impact if you planned to sell the car, prospective buyer will just compare to OE sounds and reckon your gearbox/engine is fkd
The lower mount (which I didnt fit , as I have a VWR one) is much less of a DIY proposition.


Summary
Until someone creates adaptive engine mounts that can be retrofitted to mk5/mk6 golfs the whole area is a compromise of
reduced engine movement VS Noise/Vibration/Harshness levels.
These can be effected by design and nature of the components used to build the engine mounts (contact surface area ,durometer of rubber/poly used etc)

The OE mount does a fantastic job at keeping noise levels low but allows significant engine movement even when new (and gets % wise far worse as they wear more).
I guess if you could get them cheap enough, replacing the OE mounts with new OE mounts every 5-10k miles could be an option but thats not for me, besides even when new they arent that great.

So if like me you can sacrifice some comfort for a fully restrained engine you will have to fit aftermarket mounts using one of the options I listed above.

My advice after doing this incrementally (assuming you place engine restraint over noise levels) would be to

IDEAL SCENARIO : fit all 3 mounts (2 x side + lower) at the same time so that the loads are spread evenly across all stress points.
Doing it incrementally I believe, has greatly shortened the life of my OE side mounts as well as my newer lower mount. all at once or nothing.

COMPROMISE SCENARIO 1 :
less effective (but more cost efficient) maybe to consider 2 x side with the dogbone insert, that way you can fit it all at home without the need for a press.
(I do however feel this is suboptimal and may not last as long as in combination with a 'good' lower mount), I havent tried it but the noise levels maybe reduced too.

COMPROMISE SCENARIO 2 :
fit lower VWR/THS mount and 2 new OE mounts, and replace the OE mounts frequently. that way noise is significantly reduced, OE mounts arent left to age to any great extent.

Its a double edged sword as you want them to hold the engine tight but at the same time soften to reduce noise levels.

At this stage 200 miles since fitting, I am very happy with the THS side mounts and Im quite happy to give them 1000 miles or more to bed in. :happy2:
Ill be sure to update this review as the miles progress........


thanks to everyone for their help and input on all aspects of providing data etc of this review. :happy2:

Golf gti edition 30 : 31.4mpg 381 miles

Published with Blogger-droid v1.6.3

Golf GTI Edition 30 MPG update 403 miles @ 31.4 MPG

Golf gti edition 30 mile per gallon update

393 miles @ 31.3 mpg

Published with Blogger-droid v1.6.0

Golf gti edition 30 miles to gallon update

Published with Blogger-droid v1.5.5.2

Golf GTI Edition 30 mpg update

358 miles @ 30.1MPG and still 20 miles estimated left!
must be driving to slow at the moment lol

From Johns Car Blog

Golf GTI Edition 30 in the dark...

arrived at work the other day before 7am , needless to say the lights were off!



10 minutes later, lights came on and I tried to take a 'moody' pic ...

Golf GTI Edition 30 mpg update

380 miles @ 31.4 MPG
also crossed the 30,000 mile barrier :-)

From Johns Car Blog

Seat Ibiza 1.4 Ibiza Sport / Golf GTI Edition 30 mpg updates

a few more miles on the Seat Ibiza , 398 miles @ 41.8MPG

From Johns Car Blog

and for the Golf Edition 30 Apr stage 1
358 miles @ 29.9 MPG

From Johns Car Blog

Golf GTI Edition 30 mpg update

260 miles @ 26 MPG , a bit of a low mpg tank this one
but my excuse is that I havent driven it lol
Amy has been using it (while I use the Ibiza), clearly she has a lead foot.
Either car , doesnt matter , with me driving its 5-10 MPG more ....

From Johns Car Blog

golf gti edition 30 apr mpg updates

all high octane fuel as usual

353 miles @ 30.1 MPG
362 miles @ 31.1 MPG

25k miles/ Edition 30 mpg updates / Grand Slam Tennis Wii

few more golf gti edition 30 apr stage 1 mpg updates.
Note that for these I didnt run the tank empty ;-)

30.7 mpg / 341 miles
28.5 mpg / 316 miles
29.7 mpg / 350 miles

pic of GTI beside a HUGE off road adventure land rover!

the last pic of the PS2's on the front just before them came off! somewhat smooth in the middle eek

then a few in game shots of my Wii Grand Slam Tennis character (now 3.5 stars , 2 full grand slams completed)
A fantastic 5 star game that Ive been addicted to over the last month........


Wii Sports Resort out on friday too :-)

Mk6 Golf GTI Millbrook test day

not so long ago I won an online competition at
http://mk6.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php
for a VW organised morning at Millbrook. Heres how it went


john_o tries out the 'new' aka Mk6 aka mk5.5 Golf GTI @ Millbrook
are you sitting down , then I'll begin...

wednesday night was spent staying up too late playing Wii Punch Out!.....
1am I realise bed would be a good idea
thursday 5.30 am alarm goes off
initial cruise down M6 and M1 at 85 then dropped to 70.
Oh how I love a remapped ED30 , the economy is incredible. 35MPG+

texted Greenouse and arranged meet up with just outside millbrook.
I'm early so enjoy the sunshine, then Nathan pulls up in the [s]GT[/s] , sorry R32 :innocent:



Cars parked up in visitors area, minibus into the complex after leaving our cameras.
driven to a custom complex area just for us.

Turn the corner and we are met by a line of Mk6 GTI's , white , silver or red
(no black though! I reckon thats because it doesnt suit the flabby er slab sides)

and the cars from auto express setup
mk1 Pirelli
mk2 8V runour model
mk3 8V GTI
mk4 GTI (sorry its not an R32 so its my least fav GTI) :sick0020:
mk5 2.0 TFSI

of note the mk2 had 167 miles! (theres even a pic)

nathan drooled over mk4 wheels sic!
5 spoke with fake allen bolts, we seriously need to have words ny good man.




Immediately we recognise Mr Russ Swift and have a chat, what a thoroughly nice guy.
then onto a quick overview of the mornings activities...

Best bit is we are informed its 2 per car
DSG (5 doors) and manual
ours was red 3dr with manual, all running 18 inch option monzas
adaptive damping (ACC)
dynaudio setup which we noticed but never even turned on!

straight in and we are off to the event 1 ........

Event 1 : high speed bowl

All the way up to top lane with our driver in charge.
Car stable and very quite at speed (much more so that mk5)
Then its our turns to have a go , into second fastest lane to test acceleration in the gears etc
Car intially feels responsive (steering) , very progressive power delivery and much faster than I expected.
Its has excellent pickup in 6th gear from low revs.
Visibility slightly worse than mk5.
Same engine mount drivetrain slack though lol

switched between sport and comfort ACC modes and very noticeable.

very easy to get sucked into a visual effect on the bowl , like a motorbike it feels like you could jump out at 100mph and run along side.
Scary to think what the old Mclaren F1 car record breaking attempts were like here at 220 mph+ eek!

over very quickly onto the next event

Event 2 : straight line high speed braking

120mph+ runs (should have been 100!) in an area only about 20ft wide...
Accelerate from a standstill (asked to switch TC off but not approved) hard as possible through gears.
Then while trying to hold your brekky down attempt a full on emergency stop to 0 .......
If you havent done this before its pretty amazing just how quickly you can stop and the g force exerted.

for some of the runs we had to take hands off wheel when braking at 60mph ish just to show how stable the car is.
Every time the car dealt with it amazingly. even with what felt like both rear wheels of the ground.
On one of Nathans runs you could feel the rear correctively braking to straighten the car.
No sign of brake fade. And the modulation of the ABS action is very smooth and far better than the mk5

Car from standstill gripped well with minimal TC intervention (it was dry though)

car still in one piece so its onto the next event......

Event 3 : mini alpine circuit

the one youve all heard off, but cut down I believe.
For me by far the best 'actual' driving experience of the day.
3rd gear , twists and turns , variable camber and angles, and to add some 'spice' some additional dust in some areas...

I have to say , in the back where visibility is reduced, it felt bleeding fast with Nathan driving
(we both drove this faster than our driver had done to show us, he was very relaxed at letting us get on with it).
we even passed by the New Aston with Tiff Needell , not on track i hasten to add but in a layby lol.

Supreme fun with f*ck all runoff , 3rd gear 55mph + 90degree turns, the mk6 did well and was composed and balance , although it did show
a) a lack of power out of corners
b) an even more pronounced understeer trait when pushing on

rear would move to stabilise the car , but never felt unruly , and i suspect the electronics have a lot to do with this.
could have stayed on thsi bit all day improving my lines and driving.
note to self (must book an instruction day)

alas it ends , but I reckon we badgered him enough to get a taster on the ....

Event 4 : handling circuit

the one youve seen Tiff sideways on.
Alas we werent allowed to drive. but hey it was b*lls out time with a fully qualified instructor......
Initially we were delayed getting onto the circuit by a military leviathon (30+ tons?) going round the track like an Elise!
Forst lap round, he's showing us the limits and car is well composed......second lap round , tyres warm , bit more confidence and whoosh .... :driver: :scared:
we understeer off into a ditch, slow mo , wind off lock and just hope for the best. front left 18 inch Monza takes the full hit.
I swear I heard Nathan wince. thump bang and back onto track lol. lets consider it a minor indiscretion lol. One classed as 'got away with it'! , although the alloy lacquer didnt.
a quick chuckle from us all and more fun.....
Car adjustable and fun and easily corrects that back end for you...

change of underwear and we are driven back for coffee etc ,and led to the Russ swift display in mk6 TDI
Unlike SteveP in the aftn , they said they couldnt disable the ABS in the GTI so he did it in a TDI.
As usual the guy shows how easy it can look to a pro. Even into a gap it tags a 3 point turn to get back out of again!

then onto lunch , great spread for us all , very professional.
As Steve states, camera usage was restricted so it was limited to a 20 minute period mid morning...

A pro detailer had arrived to clean the cars for the muppets , er Steve and TC and other folk.
There was a collective wince from the 'enthusiasts' gathered as we watched them take a wash leather to the cars.....mmmmm
at millbrook no one car hear you scream.......
unbelievable.

best bit : mini alpine runs
worst bit : dirty old wash leather on mk6 white paintwork

In summary an absolutely amazing day throughout.
Well planned , executed and thought out. A credit to VW to invite VW enthusiasts, and create an event for them like this.
thankyou to mk5golfgtiforum.co.uk for the competition win (sorry Jay , you would have loved it ! :fighting2:)
thanks to Nathan for being a sport on the day and not putting us in a barrier ;-)
thanks to all those that organised the event @ millbrook. Bringing the old gti marks was a nice touch.

:drinking:

Sadly we got no freebies!

And now my golf GTI summary

Ive not been a fan but the looks can and do grow on you, by far the rear is the least fluid.
And the twin exhaust just dont work for me.
A much nicer and fruity exhaust note though :happy2:
Traction control appears to be toned down from the mk5 version
very modular braking under ABS operation
Good overallgrip but trends easily into 'manufactured' understeer at pretty low speeds
ACC really works! Im amazed.
Car sits very low as std
poor fabric inside, it just looks cheap. Rest inside I really like esp the new switchgear style and steering wheel.
Car just doesnt feel as 'nimble' as the mk5, need to check if the m6 is heavier?

would I buy one? Yes I would. :surprised:
would I swap for my ED30 ? nope :-) :grin:
What the event did show me is that the game has moved on , and the R variant of the mk6 (with 4wd and 2.0 or 2.5 TSI) is going to be amazing.
Its ripe for tuning and tweaking , just like the mk5 is.
Nice set of wheels, K04 , remap and WALK kit and you have something quite special.

check out the full pictures from the day

Golf GTI Edition 30 APR Stage One remap review

I have now completed 8k miles on this remap and feel I have enough info to comment

Why
Because you can :evilgrin:, if you need to ask why, I cant tell you anything that will make you understand.
Seriously though the ED30 with its K04 turbo was heavily 'detuned' from the factory.
There is significant available power 'headroom' should you want it.
The engine can take it reliably so dont worry.
As a standard car the ED30 is a balanced package, brakes/suspension/grip/power etc
For many of us though, you've just got to scratch that itch.
For me I had just come from a 343bhp E46 M3, so I really felt I could do with a bit more power

Which remap ?
Heres a list of criteria you may wish to consider when deciding on a remap :

Customer base (size)
customer feedback
type of customer profile
distance from you
cost
development time and resource to produce product
updates
are they VW specific or other makes too?
time in business for this specific car make
dyno plots (both from company and from forums , they differ greatly). shape is as, if not more important than ultimate numbers
AirFuelRatio data, EGR temp data etc
ability and type of switching , stock vs mapped mode
adjustable (only REVO can do this)

For me APR and Awesome combo gave me the match.
Remember its not just the map but the person/company putting the map on that matters especially if you have an issue.


Sourcing
Supplied and fitted by UK APR dealer : Awesome GTI Irlam Manchester : http://www.awesome-gti.co.uk/
Remap = £499 (std like map + 98 Octane remap), includes throttle body align and fault code reset and security lockout
Cruise Control = £199 (available cheaper from a VW dealer OR fitted by vrstu on this forum but given my location I trusted Awesome to do it all)

TODO : APR site + info links
APR map is flashed which contains 2 side by side maps (one OE like , one APR), these can be selected through the cruise control stalk.

Fitting
Awesome ECU flash by cable
Before and After Dyno if requested
Included Cruise Control fitting

I had chosen to run my car in, and had completed 10k miles before remapping

Other versions
There is so much choice so I will leave it up to you, but others to consider are
REVO
GIAC
Superchips
Richter

Plus Points
Over 300 bhp
Over 300 lb/fts throughout a wide band
Fuel economy virtually OE 30 mpg average commuting
Huge spool torque peak = fab overtaking urge 6th gear
after initial peak subsides , it still pulls hard to the limiter too if thats your thing
Works well with ESP (WALK fitted at same time too)
Controllable on the throttle like OE map within reason
Very smooth , no known 'glitches' / 'hiccups' for accel/decel and usual driving styles
Pulls from idle just like OE map
Switchable to OE equivalant map using Cruise Control (its not an OE map though), drives just as OE
OE map used for dealer visits and problem diagnosis
Flash count not incremented on successive changes (my understanding is that its incremented once the first time but not after)
Maps can be locked out with a security code for dealer visits (but in depth analysis WILL show a remap)
Other options available , fault code erase , throttle body alignment etc (I got them free as part of a deal at the time)
Future tuning upgrade path Stage 2 . Stage 2+ (APR HPFP) available
APR Well respected company, large customer base
Awesome have also proved there worth 5 times over when I had issues , this was worth ££££ to me.
Forum trawling indicates APR have chosen specific way to map ED30 for EGR , AFR values etc.
Protection maps still enabled for AFR/EGR
Its bloody quick

Minus Points
wheelspin is available on demand at relatively high speeds 70mph, car in the wet can be tricky and requires caution.
wear on other components in the drivetrain will be accelerated.
For manual owners budget for a clutch (VWR paddle) is a must (mine has survived so far.....)
DSG owners may want to have more regular oil service + consider gearbox remap (increases clutch plate clamping load)
LSD would be a distinct advantage and would allow full use of the 300+ horses
Good tyres are mandatory and they wont last very long either (8k miles for Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 = bald!)
Huge spool torque peak shocks tyres loose, can hamper progress and can be counterproductive (but can be worked around mostly by throttle progression) APR choose to do this type of spool for some reason.
brakes are now not up to the job for medium / continuous use.
Increased insurance premiums (done on a power basis you are looking at +30% premium)
Not adjustable in any way (yet! there is talk of this changing soon)
Map is 98 + RON only
You will be doing + 30 mph more than you expected, be careful
you wont be able to stop just at a remap...


Summary
What a difference , night and day doesnt quite cut it, its dramatic :driver:
The sheer urge is seriously addictive, you can be a loon or just surf the wave of torque...
Although its hard on the clutch I love the pull in 6th gear at 70 ish mph , instant urge.
The big thing is that the increase is so dramatic it disturbs the 'balance' of the car.
Ideally you will also need LSD , clutch (manual), suspension , brakes to restore that balance, where each component is a match for the others and not overwhelmed.
I'm happy without these for now, but I know the car could be so much more with them.
If you can only afford the remap then you are still going to be more than happy, I know I am
Highly recommended remap.
Highly recommend Awesome for customer service (just shop around and haggle on prices )
Yes , given the choice again I would buy APR again
For me the future holds restoring the 'balance' plus maybe adding a HPFP to flatten the torque curve out.

Do the research, make your own choices, but most of all get a remap (std GTI or ED30) its definitely worth it


Facts and Figures
(all data is taken from an in dash DEFI gauge)

standard ED30 : Awesome dyno : 98+RON fuel
11-12 psi peak , 10 psi hold
255 @ flywheel
230 @ wheels
230 lbs/ft , 200 lbs/ft plateau




Ed30 APR stage 1 : 98+RON fuel
22 psi peak , 17 psi hold
310bhp @ flywheel
280bhp @ wheels (roughly?)
376 lb/ft peak , 300 lbs/ft plateau




Boost levels can vary on fuel type
(Tesco 99 RON gives best 'hit', other high octanes give best economy with a reduced hit)

Rough estimated gains from the graphs are
+50 bhp
+70 lbs/ft (peak value is increased by + 146lbs/ft!)


Additional info
whoosh.....stutter.....CEL my remap story and how it was resolved
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=263.0

ADDITIONAL DYNO RUN JUNE 2009

Golf GTI Edition 30 APR Stage 1 : Shell Optimax fuel : 22k miles
27 deg C 1021 mb 3 runs back to back

275@wheels (298@flywheel) 344 lbs/ft
279@wheels (296@flywheel) 333 lbs/ft
279@wheels (298@flywheel) 337 lbs/ft

slightly down on after the remap but much smoother repeatable curves.



EDIT Sept 09 to add some comments from Keith@APR
This was after some questions about remapping in a recent thread
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=7508.0

Quote from: Keith@APR on September 11, 2009, 11:56:27 PM
I am not really sure how it works with Revo or Bluefin but I do know how it works with APR

We are the only company in the world that adds additional coding architecture to the ECU. This new coding allows the ecu to flash itself much like the dealerships, Bluefin and others flash the ecu's through the obd 2 port except it all happens internally.

ECU files are typically 2mb of total size including some marked and addressed but unused space. It is in these unused spaces that we insert our flashing coding and our operating maps or modes.

When you use your cruise control to select the mode you want, the ecu completely reflashes itself with a completely independent set of maps for that operating mode.

For example, going from 98 ron performance to stock requires the ecu to reflash itself with all of the operating maps that are different from your exact oem code. The 98 ron performance maps that are different than your oem code is then compressed like a .zip file and stored in the inactive memory locations until you use the cruise control to tell the ecu to reflash itself back with the performance maps. This means that other than the coding it takes to flash the ecu and the performance maps that are compressed and stored in an unused memory location, your ecu is 100% OEM operating maps and code. Not maps that we've inserted that have been detuned but completely stock mapping. In fact, the first part of installing an APR ecu upgrade with DPP is to extract your OEM performance mapping to be compressed and stored in the unused memory location. This means that not only are you getting an exact OEM stock mode, you are getting YOUR EXACT OEM STOCK MODE.

The performance mapping and flashing code that is stored in the unused memory locations is less than 2% of the total file and the total file size remains the same OEM 2mb.

It is technologically impossible at the dealership level to detect APR ecu modification as long as you are in stock mode and security lockout is turned on. The only way that the 2% of different coding can be detected is by Bosch Engineers or VAG calibration engineers that can completely extract the code on your ecu and compare it line by line to a version of the OEM code to find that 2% in difference. It takes alot of man hours and expertise to be able to do this and chances are you will never see this technology available at the dealership level.

Furthermore, some percentage of the Bluefin flash must not be OEM as well or you would be able to use you bluefin flasher on any ecu. The bluefin device must write a piece of code like a key or identifier in your ecu the first time it flashes it to know that the device belongs to that particular ecu. So, bluefin is less than 100% exact OEM code as well. Unless they write the code in the bluefin device which would make it very easy to unlock and use on every ecu you run across.

From what I understand by reading Revo's patent info, they do detune the performance map back to stock like behavior.

more info in reply to my questions

Quote from: Keith@APR
Quote from: john_o on September 12, 2009, 04:57:23 PM
Have to say thats added a bit more data to my memory banks thanks Keith
I thought it was switched not reflashed each time!

which brings on my questions.........
1.When I select std map it takes 10 seconds at most to select the map via the cruise.
So why does it take longer when 'flashing' at Awesome etc? (or is it always 'seconds' to flash the ECU code?)

2. Surely switching between maps would have been 'safer' ?
I guess youve chosen this method so it is OE in stock mode but is this reliable and safe?
The ecu memory will also have a flash limit for the number of times you can do this, any idea what it is?
(I assuming Id have to switch to and from stock each day for 10yrs + to even get to this limit???)

1. The first step of DPP is to completely read out your entire ecu and our server compares your oem binary to other oem binaries' and verifies the integrity of your ecu. This takes about 2-3 minutes depending on ecu.

Once the binary is read and verified, our DPP server compiles our performance data with the remaining maps of your oem code that we don't change like start up maps, some part throttle mapping, etc.

When the compilation is complete, another 2-3 minutes, your entire ecu is reflashed.

Add in another 3-5 minutes for internet data transfer and any que in the DPP servers from others flashing and there is your 10-15 minutes of actual DPP flash time. The installer spends another 10-15 minutes entering in your customer data, setting up the flash and using a diagnostic tool to verify the flash, etc.

When our engineers use an internal flashing tool that is much like the EMCS works internal to the ecu, we only flash the calibration sectors of the ecu which is only a portion of the 2mb, don't have to compile the total OEM binary, don't have to wait for any internet or DPP ques, it takes about 10-15 seconds.

2. There are several flashing counters and other protocols in the ecu that can limit the number of flashes or alert the oem dealership to more flashes than the ecu should have. Part of reading your oem binary is to determine the number of flashes your ecu has seen prior to coming to us. This allows us to rewrite your flash counters back to their same number of flashes before you came to see us so noone will know your ecu has been flashed off of the OEM dealership network. EMCS doesn't have to worry about the counters as it flashes the internal memory of the ecu in a way that the counters aren't designed to record as a flash.

Internal ECU flashing is a more elegant and powerful solution and keeps the OEM code exactly OEM. Its a more advanced way of doing it and also provides some code integrity and security protocols. Almost every tuners' code can be stolen and from what I understand our product is more secure than most and we go to great lengths to insure it stays that way and internal ecu flashing helps with that as well.

[EDIT : Nov 09]
Heard that there were some updated files ready from APR, so
I have just had the v2.2 stage 1 APR file flashed onto the car by Awesome.
Its free (as part of your original payment). No idea what the changes are but so far feels stronger and smoother

[EDIT : Oct 2010]
Awesome GTI Manchester have ditched APR products and gone REVO!
there will be a months amnesty for customers to transition across, which I will probably do.
see http://johnoldfield.blogspot.com/2010/10/awesome-gti-ditch-apr-and-sign-with.html

[EDIT : Nov 2010 : switched over to REVO , see my review
Golf GTI Edition 30 REVO Stage 1 review]

edition 30 mpg update / spotted ed30 / R32

Edition 30 MPG update 29.6 MPG , 349 miles travelled on the tank (not inc reserve lol)
Car desperately in need of a service too

First pic is another ED30 in the car park for work I see almost every day
Second was a stunning 58 plate in B&Q today , looked gorgeous.....

18500 miles gti edition 30 mpg update

lots of miles so another quick update.
85 km/h(;-)) average speed on mway.

390+miles @ 32.2 MPG is just insane !
Reckon the different fuel (bp or shell ) seems to give better mpg than Tesco 99.
The peak boost on WOT is def less though.

18k miles edition 30 mpg / 2nd service due / Metroid Prime Wii 50% complete

365 miles @ avg 30.1MPG must be driving too slow, this tank was on Optimax btw
longer commute driving into work def helps to increase mpg average

55% complete on Metroid Prime 3 Corruption on the Wii.
Awesome game thats got me hooked. Great gameplay and graphics.
Although I have to admit Im using the guide/walkthrough to help sometimes.

Some new releases on the Wii (Madworld etc) may mean I buy a few more of this genre.

Started up the car the other day too and Im greeted by the next service schedule message! In line with the first but it doesnt have come around quickly :-(
Probably a while u wait oil change (of note it appears that VW ONLY use the longlife oil now on your car irrespective of service schedule!)